And yet rechargeables outsell batteries 10 to 1… because of consumer demand. Even knowing rechargeables need might need repair more often, i still choose rechargeables.
And my rechargeable aids are almost years old with not one issue related to needing any repairs. In fact, the aids i see that need the most repair are Phonak, regardless of batteries or rechargeable.
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My comparison was not related to hearing aids, but to the simple theory of supply and demand. If that concept is to hard to grasp in this situation, then keep thinking that its all just a conspiracy and best wishes to you on that.
80% of all aids sold last year were rechargeable and that number has been growing every year. The demand speaks for itself
Let’s cut to the chase since you right about demand, but way way off base as far as which type of aid is best for which type of person with a hearing loss. Since the majority of individuals with a hearing loss fall into the mild to mid level hearing loss range - HA manufacturers are going to cater to that group because its their bread and butter for sales. I thoroughly understand that. But right now they are Over Catering.
There are other individuals who have a serious hearing loss that require a power hearing aid that won’t fit in one’s ear canal. Or can’t be hidden deep in an ear canal or can’t use a dome fitting. This “minority group” obviously isn’t the the “bread and butter” revenue group that HA manufactures would prefer.
Yet this group is by far the more hearing impaired, and far more HA dependent on hearing aids than the first group I mentioned. Oh and brilliant comment on rechargeable growing ever year when Audis push those aids/batteries first (probably due to higher commission) and the fact that they can get more repeat business when battery chargers break down and HA users have to buy special rechargeable batteries. Which might not be sold at you local drug store.
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- No we don’t.
- No there isn’t. We’re an independent, so there’s no commission involved, just profitability. The rechargeable aid cost the same or more due to the cost of the charger.
- The only chargers that have broken in the last five years have been 2 GN ones, due to a failure of the USB B socket. GN have now modified their charger to a stronger USB C socket.
Also: Sonova have definitely botched the integration of rechargeable which will probably result in them losing their slot as #1 supplier in the World. Power product definitely needs a better rechargeable solution, but I’m wondering if this will come from one of the crossover manufacturers who are providing ‘airpods’ (or equivalent) with a longer life.
Also Mulder: THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY! I can see you like a good whinge, so why let the facts get in the way of a good argument.
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Separate question: do you regard Elon Musk’s argument for driving a Tesla on the same basis as the points above or do you feel that it’s a conspiracy by ‘big electric’ to keep you in hock to the system?
(Not withstanding the fact you can own your own small-scale Solar farm, but harnessing dinosaur juice is a bit more of a big industry situation. I’m not on that train BTW, the Mercs prefer the 95 Octane; it’s just looking like the government, car-industry and the greenies ALL want me headed that way. I’m not on board with that paradigm yet, but I’ll probably have to consider it in either the next (or following) car upgrade.)
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I have never met anyone who sees one thing as a conspiracy and doesn’t see everything else as a conspiracy. I hypothesise it’s a general discomfort with chaos and a need to imagine that the world is controlled by a clever guide, even if nefarious, rather than the collective actions of often foolish and random but quite banal humanity.
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I do think there are people who promote conspiracy theories who don’t actually believe in them. I think they realize how addictive they are for some people and use this to their advantage.
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OK, rechargeables outsell disposables by a considerable margin. And they were probably the first choice for most of the people who bought them. But would you agree that some ended up buying rechargeables because
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The model that they wanted, or that the clinic recommended, wasn’t available with disposables. That could be some Phonaks, or models like Oticon More which were released rechargeable-only with disposables becoming available only later.
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Most or all of the clinic’s inventory was rechargeables, and as a result, either:
a) Rechargeable was the path of least resistance, because it was available right away.
b) The clinic preferred to sell from its inventory, and influenced the patient in that direction.
I get the impression that you object to disposables being available to the fraction of buyers (I’ll guess 25%-30%) who prefer them, even though it wouldn’t threaten your access to rechargeables. Can you explain why?
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Nobody here saying that the industry moving towards rechargeables is responding to consumer demand is saying that they object to disposable batteries. That’s not a logical extension of the argument. I would guess that everyone here supports choice, they just also recognize market pressures.
Per your other questions: I don’t know if it’s common practice for other clinics to carry stock, but we typically do not. Every order is ordered for each individual patient, so there’s no difference in access time. Also, maybe it makes me a bad clinician, but if I ask my patient “do you want rechargeable or traditional batteries” and they want traditional batteries, I just don’t even talk about the lumity (or any other rechargeable hearing aid) with them. In most cases there are a dozen other hearing aids that will meet their needs and preferences.
Let me say once again that it is NOT the case that phonak is abandoning traditional batteries, it is just the lumity line that will only be rechargeable. They’ve historically been better than average at supporting the smaller market segments like profound loss and pediatric, so it would be a shock of they suddenly stopped. But release cycles are getting tighter and tighter and they can’t do everything at once. Maybe the “conspiracy” is less the rechargeable issue and more marketing minor changes as new when realistically big changes take longer than that.
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Seems really odd for Phonak who has made power aids for decades to come out with Lumity line with just rechargeable battery. When everyone knows power aids work best with large disposable batteries. So what statement exactly is Phonak making with Lumity brand and weak rechargeable batteries?
Sure seems like Phonak (power HA wise) is cutting its nose to spite its face. As in - Makes No Rational Sense At All, from a company standpoint nor a hearing aid user standpoint.
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Actually, i wrote that the best aid for a user is based on personal choice. You have your opinion and I have mine. 80% of users have an opinion similar to mine. And i have been to many audi’s and none tried to push me toward rechargeable. They gave me the choice. Curious, how many audiologists have you been to that have offered no choice?
Can you back up that statement with any data? Because I’m thinking Phonak uses plenty of that to make their marketing decisions.
You’re seriously caught up with this 80% of user, blah, blah, blah. You’re also showing a level of ignorance since I’m not directing posts to HA users with mild to mid range hearing loss. You can’t seem to understand that Mr. Smithster. Care to explain why? Please take your eye blinders off and look at the “BIG Picture” since you keep categorizing everyone with a hearing loss into one big group. Or shall we say the 80% group.
You’re also off base claiming 80% of HA users want rechargeable batteries, since HA dealers do many times push for one HA brand over another, for the benefit of the HA dealer. We’d all like to think someone recommending a HA will do so for good reasons like aid performance, durability, warranty support service, etc. Unfortunately most first time HA users usually don’t have a clue which type aid they should be getting, thus they rely on an experienced professional HA dealer/Audi/ENT doctor etc., to recommend various brands. But many times a hearing aid dealer will just recommend one HA brand and it might just be a brand that dealer has a special financial deal with. Sorry if that upsets a few, but it’s a fact.
And Oh - I can hear those typing now - that’s why you trial a HA fo 30 to 60 days. Totally agree unless you a first time HA user who knows nothing about HAs and what questions to ask before buying. Or you’re someone elderly that is easily taken advantage of, etc. Of if you’re someone that never “googles” anything and just buys expensive things blind.
Most HA dealers do not offer all lines of hearing aids. If you’re lucky you might find someone selling three different brands of aids If you’re real lucky maybe four. But if you happen to go to a HA dealer that just sells Signia or say just Starkey aids - well that is the HA they are going to push or shall we say recommend. Not ReSound, nor Phonak, etc., simply because the don’t sell those aids. Depending on one one’s hearing loss, that Signia aid or Starkey aid might work out perfectly (with rechargeable or disposable battery). Then again those two aids might not be the right match for someone with XYZ hearing loss and then HA dealer has to decide do they still push for a sale with an aid that might not be ideal, or do they do the right thing and suggest someone try other aid brands that the dealers doesn’t offer?
In life sometimes you have to look out for yourself, because no one else will.
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Previously you were suggesting that the FDA force the HA companies to give you your “right.” But if you’re going to do it yourself then more power to you. What’s the plan?
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You guys need to pour a beer and chill. How many times can we go round and round beating a horse to death on this rechargeable vs. battery argument? It always ends in a nasty argument with one or more people getting their accounts suspended.
There are lots of good options out there for everyone. No need to stress over conspiracy theories…
Jordan
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Maybe if I’m lucky for this subject and follow up posts “catch fire” on internet and then start to get some traction. Not holding my breath though. Just saying Coke sells regular and diet and other types of soft drinks. Why can’t HA manufacturers offer aids that work with both types of batteries? Clearly there is a market for both.
Changing a few ingredients and charging extra for it is brilliant marketing. If it were that easy for HA companies they’d be doing it 100%.
I’m reminded of the smart meter conspiracy here in BC about ten years ago. A small minority of customers demanded the right to opt out of having a dreaded cancer-causing info-stealing smart-meter on their premises. Problem was that reading the meters manually is an expensive process that the company was trying to eliminate. Keeping meter readers just for the conspiracy folks was going to be expensive. So they relented and allowed all the antis to keep the old manual meters… for something like an extra twenty bucks a month. Problem solved, not many of the old meters any more. Apparently $240 a year was more than most of the antis were willing to pay to prevent cancer.
Similarly, the HA companies are trying to streamline. But if you could get enough buyers to agree to pay a premium for disposable battery versions of every model then the companies might be more interested in serving a declining market share.
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Exactly.
The thread honestly needs to be stopped.
It’s way off topic.
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Streamline is probably the proper word to use as far as direction some HA manufacturers are going. Certainly there’s major consolidation within industry. Yet consumers (HA buyers) like anyone else like choices. Your suggestion to pay more for premium aids that use disposable batteries might have merit. Then again it might also alienate or cause hardship to the hearing loss group that is most dependent on aids.
I’m sure OTC is causing heartburn and lose of revenue for some big HA manufacturers. Still a good quality hearing aid that just happens to cost more, will far exceed the performance of an OTC aid. Short term and long term. With that said - I think we are talking pennies regarding differences in costs to design/manufacturer an aid using a rechargeable battery versus disposable. Am I 100% certain about that? No.
But as well all know there are really two reasons good hearing aids (not OTC) cost so much and that is the cost of Research and Development and the fact that hearing aids in general are not not bought in mass quantity like cell phones, TV’s, laptops, etc. Thus limited demand. But (and I stand by this) the guts of a hearing probably cost not more than $100 to $200. Again I’m not an expert but I bet if you disassembled a HA and put a price figure on each HA component, users would be shocked by how little is spent (on material) to assemble a new aid. So I’m not buying the line - HA’s using rechargeable batteries are way cheaper to make then HA that use disposable hearing aids. From a part/component standpoint both aids pretty much cost the same to make.
As you point out, the sky-high prices of (good) HAs are due to their R&D costs and special software, not the off-the-shelf hardware. In this respect the industry looks like big Pharma, where synthetising medicines is (typically) cheap and easy, while demonstrating they are safe and efficacious (R&D) may cost billions. Still, with a ‘patient’ population that is hugely underserved (and, as you also point out, incomparable to the mass of, e.g. smartphone users), the HA industry should revise its marketing strategies. First, there is the infuriating habit of manufacturers to sell at different prices to different countries (“what the market will bear”). As if poor people do not exist in “rich countries” (and vv). This is a bit like shopkeepers demanding to see your passport before they announce their prices- as if the internet never abolished local distributor networks. Second, the HA business model is too heavily dependent on intermediaries (audiologists), which drives up costs. More should be directed towards (cheaper!) direct-to-customer marketing, along with easy access and support for self-fitting tools (like in this forum!). As this recent study shows (Effectiveness of an Over-the-Counter Self-fitting Hearing Aid Compared With an Audiologist-Fitted Hearing Aid - PMC), self-fitting is at least as efficient as what audiologists can achieve.
To return to the original topic- if BTE HAs would be just a little bit larger and carry higher-capacity batteries (lasting much longer) that would solve some of the complaints I see here. Sadly, there is the strong, competing force to make HAs ‘invisible’.
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