Oh My - Has Phonak stopped using disposable batteries?

Hearing Aids
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Just reviewed Dr. Cliff Sept. 2022 video on Lumity hearing aids. In video Cliff comes flat out and says “going forward” Phonak will no longer offer hearing aids with disposable batteries. Yikes.

Furthermore Dr. Cliff says that’s a BIG mistake and Phonak will lose 15% of customer base, with current users of aids (with disposable battery) going to other competitor brands that still use disposable.

I pretty up-to-date on HA’s but this is the first I’ve heard Phonak is turning to the dark side and no longer offering future aid users the Huge benefits of disposable batteries. So has Phonak truly come out and said “GOOD BYE” to disposable batteries in all their future hearing aids? Or is there still a chance the company will continue offer aids (power aids) with size 13 and 675 disposable batteries.

And if you’re reading this post Phonak - I’ll be one of the 15% percent saying goodbye if you made such a “bone head mistake” to eliminate disposable batteries across all lines of Phonak hearing aids.

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Oh stevemink, STEVEMINK! You have my 100% empathy and understanding here. Yep. If Dr Cliff says it’s so, it’s SO, cuz he is an audi with a clinic and patients, and would be the first line in the field to tell US, cuz we all know that Phonak is NEVER gonna put a big, red banner on their website screaming: NO MORE BATTERY AIDS - EVER AGAIN.

I really agonized, whined to my previous and present audis, even wrote up a statement for them to hand over to their Phonak rep regarding that grim reality. There are a few benefits to rechargeable aids (for folks with dexterity issues, or the super environmentalists who don’t want batteries in the landfill) but I was devastated. The problem is that research may show that the majority of HA wearers OWN rechargeable aids, but the survey never asks, “What would YOU prefer: rechargeable aids or battery-operated aids?” So we simply don’t know how many of us really don’t want to be forced into the rechargeables camp.

I can’t go without aids + backup pair at all times. That means I had to learn how to juggle two pairs of rechargeable Phonak Lumity Life aids going forward. Both of my new pairs failed at the 4-month point, and that further eroded confidence in rechargeables, cuz now you have the aids and the charging base to trouble-shoot.

Life is much easier with batteries. I’d travel with a pack of them, change them out every 6 days, going DAYS with a single “charge” vs 17 hrs with my rechargeables.

When you buy a new phone, you now have to contend with the phone’s OS + aids + charging base + Bluetooth. And when you travel, you have to be sure there’s a socket available for the charging base. And for long flights, you better save an old pair of battery aids to get thru Customs after a long flight, rather than stand in front of a dour agent pointing to your ears and playing DEAF.

I could write a dissertation on my gripes with rechargeables vs battery-operated aids, but it’s pointless. My guess is that others will follow Phonak’s lead here. We are going to have to live with this cludge and hope that technology will improve the rechargeable life to maybe a full 24 hrs? Well, at least for my hearing loss, I drain the batteries much faster than other users.

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I don’t think it’s accurate to say that Phonak has stopped using disposable batteries. If you add “in their Audeo line,” it likely is accurate but disposable batteries are used in some of their Naida models and some of their custom models.

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Well I feel games are being played here by Phonak and possibly other HA manufacturers if rechargeable aids/batteries are forced down our throat. Maybe someone at Phonak said - “gee we can make a lot more money if we force HA buyers to buy aid charging units” that they really don’t want. And of course when aid charging units fail (after warranty), more money will be rolling into Phonak for repair costs. KaChing.

Then think again how many people with a hearing loss who travel might happen to lose or damage their battery charger, I mean ____ happens. But of course Phonak makes more money replacing lost and damaged chargers.

Because when you think about it there are serious advantages in using disposable batteries “across the board”, especially for those of us who use larger batteries. Like Bluejay I could write pages on this subject, but last I checked consumers LIKE CHOICES. And if Phonak and other HA manufactures can offer aids in silver, purple and black (etc.) colors they surely can offer aids of all sizes with disposable batteries.

Boy I sure see a lot of people boycotting things for various reasons. So starting to think wouldn’t it be great if consumers starting boycotting aid manufactures who wrongly decide to offer only rechargeable hearing aids to the masses. Really

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Serious question, how many other portable/body worn personal listening devices come with a standard removable battery option now?

I’m not saying choice is a bad thing, but when you can get into the battery tech and space-engineer the battery around other components on the chassis, you open up a lot of engineering opportunities. Or you stick with a 1.2v pill design to fulfil all of your power hungry processing and communication needs.

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Starkey genesis ai claims up to 51 hours on a charge. Maybe phonak will have something with similar battery life coming up.

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Understand where you’re coming from but there are lots of HA users that like to keep things simple. Maybe its more of an older generation thing but then again I’d hate to be some where - where my battery died and I had to excuse myself so I could recharge dead battery. Heck maybe in ten years of less HA batteries will be some how recharge by body heat. Which is the ultimate power source unless you’re dead.

But for now I like to keep things simple. And disposable batteries are very simple and test proven. Their also dirt cheap, though aid manufactures want you think if go the rechargeable battery route you can retire at age 40 from all the money you’ve saved not buying disposables. Give me a break.

Overall I’ve had generally good luck with HA’s but I know many who have had luck. And when an aid goes bad you get out your mental check list and think -

Did I have a dead battery?
Do I have wax build up in air vent?
Is aid battery door closed completely?
Is aid body damaged?
Did aid get wet?
Etc.

What I don’t need to add to that list is

Is battery charger working properly
Is aid connecting properly to charger?
Did battery charger get damaged?
Did battery charger get damaged from power outage?
How much do rechargeable batteries cost?
How long do rechargeable batteries last, before they won’t charge anymore?
What happens in long term power outage?
Is cost of battery charger and replacement batteries more than I pay for disposable batteries over eight year period?
Etc.

I’m not going to beat this horse to death but people just like options. I’m thinking of buying a new Tacoma next year and low and behold Toyota is offering a stick with new model. Kind of unheard of in the truck category, though at my age I’m sticking with automatic. Is it really a cost issue to keep making HA’s that work both off disposable batteries and also rechargeable? Or is it something else - like Big Brother telling little brother - Take it or Leave it?

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Um Bongo makes a good point. I think folks are going overboard with talk of ‘big brother’ and ‘forcing rechargeables down our throats’. I prefer to think that the ha industry is filled with good and reasonable people, rather than nasty brutes looking to cripple HA users with their nefarious designs. And frankly, given a long lifetime with hearing issues, this matches my experience. How many here have run into audis who turned out to be evil villains looking to deprive them of their rights?
None.
Rechargeable open up advantages in HA design. this is a good thing. They last for well over 24 hours. I reluctantly went from batteries to rechargeable aids and now I’ll never go back. The majority of HA users prefer rechargeable aids, and as time goes on, still more will.

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That would tend to follow the rest of the World where manual transmissions are way more common: especially in smaller cars: except for electric and hybrid where managed transmissions are preferable.

The big-brother stuff is a bit nonsensical too, tbh.

Like I said: take a slice through modern, portable electronics: it’s all run on rechargeable, mainly Lithium batteries. Disposable stuff is seen as a less simple construct: which you’ve used first - so technological determinism means that’s the default ‘best’ option in your case.

Sometimes you move to the mountain, other times the mountain moves to you.

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I have Naida Paradise P-90 with 675 batteries that last 2 weeks. I went down the rechargeable route a few years ago before Li Ion. Just did not work with long days or travel. This was before serious streaming.

With my hearing loss these hearing aids are the best and I have Roger equipment I don’t want to lose. I got nervous about the loss of this design and bought a second pair as backup. Before that I used my Naida Marvel as backups. So I think I am good for decade, which may be when I leave the planet.

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You’re a hearing professional, so I’m sure you know that your patients’ relationship with their hearing aids is very different from regular users’ relationship with earbuds and headphones and such.

How does a 1.2V pill limit you, electronics-wise? There was the claim that Phonak omitted accelerometer-based functions from their disposable battery Paradise(?) because it didn’t have enough power. But we had a thread a few months ago where I cited an accelerometer that can run on zinc-air voltage. And if it’s a matter of current/power, not voltage, we know that zinc-air batteries can be engineered to increase the available current, like the special 675’s for implants. But that accelerometer draws seriously low current anyway. Or is there another example? It seems that it’s rechargeable aids, not replaceable battery aids, that have problems with power hungry processing and communication. Zinc-air technology has high energy density on both weight and volume basis.

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That is an impressive figure! With my power drain, I’d be happy if that claim of 51 hours translated to 24! :grinning:

Perhaps in another 3 years if I’m in the market for new aids, I’ll take a look at Starkey. Their AI was mostly for health tracking, falling down, and things I simply don’t need now. All I need is:

  1. WATERPROOF - from top to bottom, so I can swim and do water sports while actually hearing
  2. BATTERY LIFE - something that lasts 24+ hrs would be a big improvement and even take the painful edge off rechargeables that are forced on me
  3. SPEECH CLARITY IN LOUD NOISE - yep, not sexy, not new, same ol’ same ol’. Seems as unattainable as #1 and #2 above.
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Some of us love to unplug and go camping, backpacking and simply not charge a darn thing for a few days.

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I suspect they could claim that rechargeable batteries make sense environmentally, which is probably true.
I know for the KS10 they want $200 US per aid to replace the battery. If they started using consumer replaceable rechargeable batteries it starts to make more sense except for the reasons stated already. An aid that could use rechargeable batteries, but you could replace it with a disposable battery would be ideal.

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When I was at my audiologist 2 weeks ago, I asked if they arranged for the replacement of the rechargeable batteries in my Widex HAs. The answer was yes - $0 if within the warranty period of 3 years, NZ $250 per aid if HAs were between 3 and 5 years, NZ $600 per aid if HAs were older than 5 years.
I was just happy to learn the batteries could be replaced, as then I could prolong the working life of HAs before another major expense (My pair of HAs cost NZ $4,300 to buy)

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My audi suggests replacing the batterie of my Sighias after two years if I notice them not holding a charge for adequate time, and then again at three years just before the warranty expires.They’ll sent them in. To be honest,. my batteries haven’t degraded one bit in the year (???) that I’ve had them. So with new batteries at year three–and possibly new aids, because it may be cheaper for Signia just to sent new aids–I think I’ll get another three years from this rechargeable. By then I may want new aids, OR I’ll be happy to pay to replace the batteries. I would have spent as much or more on disposables anyway. I think folks tend to not factor this last into the equation. I spend zilch on batteries for 5-6 years.

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Do you really think HA manufactures care about the environment? What kool-aid are you drinking?

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Most of them have to in their country of origin to get their green iso accreditation. In fact Widex boasts about being 100% carbon neutral as they run a wind-farm or something to cover the entire impact of their supply chain.

The Danes are pretty hot on their industries performing well in this respect as are the Swiss.

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Actually: usage wise, not so much these days. Average wear time for a set of iPod can easily get up to 8-9 hours, while the hearing aid data puts average usage at about 10-13 hours.

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If you want to speak to an electrical engineer about this: feel free, but my understanding is that if you’re dealing with a fixed R load, but have double the voltage, your current requirement haves: therefore you battery drain is reduced and the life increases. This is why high frequency load splitting has been in use for years to create 0-2.4v across the rails on the chip and transducers.

The V=IR situation is pretty well established.

Current drain in microAmps Is still current drain: the amount of output from cell batteries has been a huge limiting factor in respect of hearing aid design for years. I’m still surprised that nobody is making a spit case polymer to build the battery around the outside of the chassis.

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