my Audi said 13 size version inbound in january 17 , can somebody confirm that?
Yes it will, simply by removing ANY part of the ambient you’ll think the volume has gone down. If you’re in a situation where there’s a steady state ambient like a fan or a diesel engine running it’s going to be more noticeable the volume has dropped simply because of the reduction in low frequency sound that you tend to use to judge the volume around you.
What you probably meant is that the volume of speech should be unaffected, which by and large would be true especially given the claims regarding the speech channel and directionality preservation. Some people have assumed that this means that the Opns aren’t so effective in background noise - that’s like criticising a colour film because it doesn’t offer the same levels of contrast as a black and white one. How you process all that extra information is down to the plasticity of your brain.
Yes you’re correct that I meant the volume of speech should be unaffected and I’m not talking about the volume of the ambient noise here. That’s how I read 1BlueJay’s comment, too, when he said the volume is reduced. It’s logical to assume that he’s talking about the speech volume because if noise volume is reduced and speech volume is not then he wouldn’t have complained otherwise.
I personally have not noticed any steady state ambient noise reduction in my program despite it being set to max noise reduction when I’m in listen mode, say like in a car with a lot of road noise.
The ONLY time I notice any noise reduction is when I’m in a car with the fan going on max volume and I start talking myself. If I pay close attention I can tell that the fan noise is reduced while I’m talking, and resumes immediately when I stop talking. But I don’t know if that’s really the noise reduction working or if it’s an artifact of my talking and trying to listen to myself at the same time. When other people talk in a noisy car, I don’t notice any noise reduction during their speech at all.
Or if it’s simply an artifact of plain-old amplitude compression. This discussion of the OPNs’ noise reduction schemes has become so convoluted, and so full of conjecture. Sometimes, on these forums, I’d appreciate it if some of the professionals would step in. Or even some of the DIY-ers who are working with these. I find it hard to believe that these aids seem, apparently, to be so bad at noise reduction. I wonder how they are set up, the ones that are giving so many people these problems.
My exact sentiment as well. The Oticon marketing and white paper puts so much focus on talking about noise reduction, so I’m really puzzled as to why I’m not noticing any. But I can notice noise reduction on the other (older) pairs of HAs I’ve been wearing just fine (non-Oticon brands).
Any audi on this forum who cares to comment? My own audi doesn’t know anymore than what the Oticon trainer and sales rep told her, and these Oticon pros don’t really have much to say on the topic, except to try this, try that… But nothing seems to make a difference.
So I’ve now has my Alta2’s for about 20 months and I’m still loving them for the most part. My biggest complaint with them has been distortion and artifacts with noise reduction. It makes it impossible for me comfortably to run with noise reduction in my default profile; I switch it on only in the noisiest situations where I need it for speech understanding. I understand that the OPN platform is supposed to reduce the distortion of noise reduction; I’ve heard some say that they can even whistle or sing with NR on without that annoying flutter! Is that true?
Also, about when does Oticon usually refresh their line? The Alta2’s were released between the time I first consulted with my Audi last year and the time I was fitted. If an upgrade to the OPN platform is likely soon, I’d probably hold off until that’s available.
I have crappy Costco aids, and I don’t get any “flutter” from impulse noise. What you’re experiencing sounds more like compression “pumping” than anything else. I do have the noise reduction turned on, too, although not at the highest setting. It seems to work quite well; the only problem I notice is a little distortion in high-mid frequencies when it’s set to the max. I’m actually quite surprised that I don’t get noticeable compression artifacts.
I don’t get any fluttering or distortion when I whistle or sing neither on the OPN nor on my 3 pairs of Costco HAs before that. Maybe your Alta is not set up right by the audi or something, Latinist.
I’ve read through both the OPN product guide (marketing brochure) and its white paper on the OpenSound Navigator as well as all online marketing stuff that I could find and I’ve never come across anything that talks about “reducing the distortion of noise reduction” on the OPN. It’s not a problem statement anywhere for the OPN as far as I can tell. Can you point me to the source of this if available?
Ironically I’d just be happy to be able to notice ANY noise reduction on the OPN, let alone noticing any artifacts that may be caused by the noise reduction.
For me, most of the stuff people keep talking about I have no idea what they mean. I don’t understand the settings lingo and terms.
What I DO know is that these OPN’s have given me the best hearing in the upper range of any I’ve used before.
I don’t notice any better success at noise reduction which to me just means I still hear too much of what I don’t want to hear compared to what I DO want to hear.
I talked with another user while waiting in the aud’s office, and he WAS impressed with the noise reduction of the OPN’s and his hearing was somewhat similar to mine other than his low range was a bit worse.
I have a feeling that there is probably a variety of opinions even from users having similar hearing loss maybe just because our brains are not all looking for the same thing.
Can we expect a second generation OPN in 2017? I’m eligible for a new pair under my insurance starting in late spring, but I would definitely wait a few months for a newer version.
There’s a big firmware upgrade that needs doing on ALL pre-December 2016 aids. Imho, they haven’t event scratched the surface of what this system can do yet. It really needs the interface to be far more drillable. Yes we all like things to be automatic, but Genie 2 effectively stops you from even looking under the hood. If, as described here you want more noise management, you simply cannot modify the output in that direction.
If you don’t agree with their fitting Ethos, you might well struggle to get past that in your fitting choices.
I think they originally came out with a single (top of the line) version for the OPN but recently announced 3 different versions, the top of the line and 2 reduced functionality versions (probably at lower price points). But I doubt if we’ll see a second generation next year, if second generation here implies major improvements in performance and functionality. If anything, it looks like Oticon rushed to market the OPN in 2016 without having some key accessories like the ConnectClip streamer available for Android phones and soft phones on the PCs. I’m guessing 2017 will just be consolidation of the newer/lower models line up and delivering missing accessories, improving reliability via firmware updates, etc.
Besides, Oticon markets the OPN as a major paradigm shift that’s radically different than what’s been on the market for years. So I don’t think you’ll see another new paradigm shift anytime soon. If anything, if Oticon is successful with this new paradigm shift, other HA mfgs may follow suit and come up with something similar to it.
If you wait, I think maybe you’ll see more choices available, just not necessarily radically better choices.
From the hardware perspective, I think the Velox platform is already giving the OPN plenty of processing power for a while. So I think the focus will be on improving the software side which everyone will get via firmware updates anyway.
What I really would like to see is Oticon support Android phones with direct streaming like they do with iPhones. But I think this won’t happen anytime soon until a Bluetooth Low Energy standard emerges that all the major phone mfgs will agree to adopt, which can be a long time. However, this is probably yet another firmware update as well when it happens.
Hmm. My Audi and I already struggled with the Alta2 to get things just right. Are you saying that with the new OPN platform there is even less fine control? I don’t mind noise reduction, but I can’t have feedback control messing up my voice when I sing or whistle or noise reduction removing things that I need or want to hear.
I know you’re asking Um Bongo the question, but I can share with you what I know about control with the OPN.
My audi tweaked my setting to reduce the 6K and 8K amplification setting by 2db and 4K and 5Khz by 1 db to correct some distortion issue I have on one of my HAs. So I think the fine control is there at least in terms of customizing your volume setting at all/any of the 64 frequency channels.
For feedback control, it was a one time setting that was done in the first fitting and from then on it’s good to go without any further feedback adjustment, except for the physical adjustments of trying out different dome sizes with various venting holes or custom molds, etc.
As for noise reduction, all I can tell is that there’s a low, mid and max noise reduction setting for simple environment and complext environment, but no more fine tuning further than that. You can also not have to worry about noise reduction removing things that you need or want to hear, because I personally struggle to notice any noise reduction going on at all, even at the max NR setting. If anything, you’ll probably complain that you’re hearing too many things with the OPN that you wish you don’t have to hear, especially static ambient noises.
The OPN doesn’t really have predefined built-in programs, although you can store up to 4 programs if you want. They seem to rather have you use their single default program for everything if they have their way. So while they allow customization, they don’t seem to encourage it.
The default mode is that they start out by asking you 5 questions about your environment and listening preferences. They then take this information and come up with a single program for you that’s tailored to your taste, and that’s about it. The rest of the tweaking is between you and your audi.
With respect, it’s so much more complicated than this.
audiologyonline.com is always a good place to start! Registration is free, and super-simple. Here’s what a search turns up:
Course Search
Oticon opn
"========~··
27949: Oticon Opn - Part 1 (rec-modules)
Z7959: Oticon Opn - Part 3 (rec-modules)
27944: Oticon Opn - Part 1 (rec-modules)
27790: An Introduction to Otic1on Opn (video)
There’s also Navigating the Genie Software: Programming Tips and Tricks for the OPN Products
Course: #28328 Level: Intermediate 1 Hour
I haven’t watched these Oticon ones because I don’t have Oticon aids, but I’ve watched a bunch of others, and trust me they are not rocket science. Some of the more technical, hard-core audiology ones, maybe, but not this genre. They’re designed as lowest-common-denominator basic training for fitting personnel. They’re interesting, too!
As I looked over his shoulder, I could see the noise reduction program for each of my programs (Program 1 - default, Program 2 - noisy place), and I could see that for each aid (left, right) there is a parameter that allows him to reduce the noise by -5, -7 and -10. There was no “0”, and I did think it kind of arbitrary that volume would be lowered by these amounts. It sure seems to me that while the directional mic kicks in on Program 2, ALL volume goes down a noticeable amount (even tho I said “Make it -5 if that’s as little a reduction as you can pick.”)
Augh, sometimes I feel like I am the blind leading the blind. And frequently, my aud-guy can’t even seem to sync up my aids with the software on his computer - as if I am sitting a mile away or somehow, some signal is interfering with the “communication”. So that makes me wonder if any of my settings are actually being saved. Well, I’ll return for more trial 'n error next week.
YES! This is exactly what I was hoping for: that only the volume frequencies other than those of human speech range would be reduced in my Program 2 “noisy environment” setting. But unless I’m not hearing correctly, it sure seems that all frequencies uniformly diminish in volume: the ambient noise of the restaurant and my husband’s voice across the table from me. Granted, the mic is directional, but with a tea cozy muffling the volume. Not sure what’s going on.
It’s almost comical that 4 years on from my last set of aids, Oticon marketing TRUMPETS all the new bells and whistles: faster signal processing, more channels to tweak, more programs to set up, all that yada yada to fiddle-faddle with. But when I return to my aud-guy next week, I’m going to keep just the default Program 1 and one other dedicated to the TV streamer (which in itself is a cludge to operate - but that’s a whole 'nuther post).
I get the feeling that the software that programs these miracle aids is utterly clueless about what frequencies should be boosted (and certainly not diminished) in the human speech range, to make it easier for us to hear folks behind us, in front of us, on a trail, in the back seat of a car, off to the side, etc., It shouldn’t be rocket science.
As long as the HAs sync up with the computer, your settings should be saved and your audi should get confirmation of it.
My audi has trouble syncing up my OPNs to the computer fairly often, too. The first thing she did was to switch out to brand new batteries just in case. Weak batteries may cause syncing problems. If that still doesn’t work, she either moves the set up to a different laptop and it usually works there. If not, quitting the app and reopening it should help. Or disconnect and reconnect the USB dongle.
The gain is pretty editable and the feedback manager is FAR better than he one in the Alta2.
My complaint is about the noise management setting. As illustrated above there’s only three settings in ‘simple’ and ‘complex’ noise. If you consider his against the destination based settings I use on the Unitron Pros, which have seven noise/speech destinations with eight combinations of directionality/noise reduction.
Even by my maths, that’s 56 vs 6 options. AND the lesser Opns will have fewer options again.
As to possible upgrade:
Resound had the Linx and Linx2. It is the same hardware with a much updated software and came out in about a year at which time the gave the Linx to Costco as the KS6. It looked like Resound rushed the Linx out to take advantage of being one of the first iphone ready products.
Octicon seems to have done something similar. It is obvious the product was rushed. It was the sole offering. No mid or entry product. No devices available. But they could compete as iPhone ready.
Based on that you might see an OPN2 product sooner than one would anticipate. But who can say?