Ever Felt Like You Were Ripped Off?

Suspected Scam Reports
81

Not so sure if the idea of hearing aid manufacturers having offices in the field is such a bad idea. Hear me out…

The only issues as I see them, in this type of business model, are (a) sufficient coverage geographically, and (b) sufficient competition to keep costs down and service up.

We are seeing this now with cellular phone suppliers and two way radio system providers doing just this.

FURTHER TO THIS, I find myself in a quandary and here is my story, which I will post in a seperate thread if necessary, so it stands out as a warning to potential customers. CAVEAT EMPTOR!

My wife is deaf in one ear and impaired in the other. She relies on a CROS system hearing aid setup to determine where sounds are coming from and to converse in a group, which she must do for both business and for personal reasons (such as maintaining a level of self assuredness in family and/or friend gatherings). We understand that there are only TWO brands of CROS systems presently on the market; namely Unitron and Phonak.

The audiologist recommended the Unitrons and we bought and paid for them about a year ago. They have spent much time in the ‘shop’ and to make a long story short, Unitron ultimately replaced them with a brand new set (as we were led to believe). You would think that after almost a year of troubles Unitron would have checked to ensure the units were working before letting them leave their plant. NOPE! You would have thought that the dispenser and audiologist would have checked the units out with a ‘standard’ program to ensure they were ready, working and only in need of minor tweaking when we took a half day off to (yet again) pay a visit to this dispenser/audiologist that is located near Markham/Stoufville, Ontario. NOPE. You would think that we would be somewhat ticked off arriving to find the system DEAD and the audiologist UNABLE TO PROGRAM even the working side. You’d be right. We said that we were unhappy and asked for a different make. We were told that because of all the trouble we could switch to the Phonak Audeo V system at no cost to us (after all, dispensers are extremely well paid in Ontario for their services. Sic. They are grossly overpaid.). We agreed, having taken the time to research on this forum primarily and determining that this was EXACTLY the system we wanted and which would do the job.

Strangely, the audiologist insisted on doing another hearing test. The Phonaks were ordered in and we again took time off for the 10th. time or so to come and get the “fitted”. Well, the “fitting” on Phonak Audeo V is no big deal if you have a clue as to what you are doing. The unit is micro sized and has a wire that places a wee speaker/microphone in your ear. The CROS transmitter side has a microphone only supposedly and requires little or no adjustment whatsoever as I understand it. The whole job should have taken about 20 minutes I am told. Well, guess what. They had no clue as to how to properly program the Phonak system either at this place near Markham/Stoufville in Ontario. We finally insisted on dealing with the branch manager and having the Phonak rep there. And so it came to pass. And we are about as tickled as tickled can be with the equipment, after taking about 16 half days off in visits to the dispenser/dealer with all of this nonsense. Asides from eating batteries, which we expected, the Phonaks are miraculous pieces of engineering and my wife cannot imagine a better system, bar none.

Our issue is now with the dispenser/dealer. They claim that Unitron, despite the issues we had and despite the hearing aids sold to us (and paid for in full) being LEMONS and despite all of our wasted time… Unitron was chargin a restocking fee of 25%!!!

The original quote of “We will change your hearing aids for the Phonaks at no cost to you” became… “This is going to cost you about $400 plus taxes”. That we were prepared to live with and offered to pay. I had my credit card out. Our invoice was not ready. “Next visit” we were told (when we would come in to pick up the units). At the next visit, when we came in to pick up the Phonaks, we were told “we are going to have to charge you $500+” and upon asking to speak to the owner we were told the owner had several locations and was not available. We left. AGAIN, no invoice was ready nor presented to us although we did have a business card with the original quote on it. We had to return yet again to have the units programmed; this time with the Phonak rep. present. And again, when we went to leave, there was nobody at the counter to speak to us nor take our payment (I was, at that time, willing to pay $500 to keep the peace and maintain future relations. Still no invoice presented though.) Well, imagine our shock, when a few weeks later we received a statement in the mail announcing that we owed $1200 (!!!) along with a credit note for the original Unitron purchase but STILL… no invoice for the Phonaks! I finally had to call and insist on them sending me a copy of the invoice, which the eventually found and faxed to me. The difference between the two invoices was indeed $1200, but we were not going to stand still for one minute after being told that it would cost us ZERO. I asked for the owner again and was told she was out of town until ‘next Tuesday’ and would call me on her return. All of this conversation is recorded “for quality control purposes”. I asked for the manager who happened to be the gal that looked after us on our final visit along with the Phonak rep. She did not understand why the bill was so high but immediately said that she could reduce the bill by some $650 give or take. I should have paid the $550 and shut up… but I reminded her that the original quote on the difference, due to all of our aggravation, was ZERO. She said she would have the owner call us and that was the end of the conversation.

Well, the owner did call us back, a week later than expected, TODAY and left a message stating quite succinctly that the balance was $1200 and she was going to do nothing about it.

At this point I am torn between just letting them take us to small claims court and let a JP decide what’s fair, based on the evidence, or talking with the owner to come to some sort of amicable arrangement in order to give the wife an avenue of approach for any future problems that may arise with the product. Suggestions would be appreciated.

If the thing were to go to court I would subpoena all of the staff involved in the billing process as well as the staff that were involved in the original deal… as witness to the pricing mentioned. I also have some other evidence of the earlier pricing quotes and of our inability to pay as they refused to take payment due to lack of having paperwork.

Suggestions?

We do not wish to be the customers from H–L but then again do not want to be stepped on.

Problem in Ontario is that they are just getting paid too much money by the government and customers - they have no fear of ridicule or loss of business.

82

Send an Email to the Unitron CEO in Kitchener. Ask them outright whether there is a re-stocking fee, ask them whether they feel it’s appropriate with the apparent failure of the Audiologist to fit the Unitron system that you should be charged. Explain you have been detailing your wife’s experience on the Hearing Aid Forums and are looking for a positive outcome.

Good PR are very important to most companies: Unitron actually have a very good record in being customer orientated and responsive with these kinds of issues.

83

I think you pretty much have a slam dunk case if you take them to small claims court with all the evidence you have, but I would also name Unitron in the small claims case. I don’t know if the audiologist is as much to blame as the defective HA’s from Unitron are. However, I too would call Unitron and see if it can be resolved though them. All the audi wants is to be compensated for the time they spent, but since the product was defective it should be Unitron that foots the bill. Why should you have to pay for trying to get a defective product to work. You could also go after Unitron for lost time from work if you end up going to court. Good luck!

84

Thanks for the suggestions and I have made note of same; they are excellent.

A few more tidbits without letting the HUGE evidence out of the bag… the phone message left by the owner of this chain of dealerships was quite caustic and she had the nerve to tell us in the message that we had wasted their time and energy at 16 (?) visits (the audiologist had no clue as to how to program the Unitrons). They owner was party to the discussion that came up with the revised $350+ quote on the exchange (this, after the Unitrons had been REPLACED by Unitron for obvious reasons, after a year of attempting to get them working right and the replacement units arrived and were DOA!!). At that point, when we had said emphatically that we did not want to see another set of Unitrons, the Unitron rep wanted to come in to see if they could settle the matter. Sic. We had already researched and come up with the Phonak Audeo V’s as our chosen replacements. They were ordered in and the audologist had no clue as to how to program them. We had to make multiple visits AGAIN and demand that the Phonak rep be present for our last visit, at which time they were properly programmed and we could not be happier with them.

Any restocking fee from Unitron is of no concern to us but I will endeavor to find out if , in fact, they were charged a restocking fee. Why is it of no concern to US? Simply because the product never worked properly and the replacement product sent out by Unitron after about ten visits was DEAD ON ARRIVAL. Sic. I cannot believe that Unitron would charge a restocking fee unless the audiologist was grossly incompetent and at fault. Make sense?

Oh… after getting some legal advice from our attorney, these folks up near Markham and Stoufville would be insane to allow this to go to small claims court.

My wife’s vocation depends on a license that is heavily safety based and without a reliable set of hearing aids she is simply NOT permitted to work. In fact, it is a CRIMINAL offense to do so knowing that your hearing aids are not working 100%. If your hearing aids stop working you are obliged to inform the duty manager and refrain from further work until the issue is corrected. Ultimately, my wife was in a series of training sessions when her hearing aids failed yet again and as a result was, in essence, terminated as they needed other “operators”.

We have a letter from the government detailing this. Period. Loss of income? You betcha. Only the tip of the iceberg. You cannot counterclaim nor sue for such things as ‘pain and suffering’ or ‘psychological trauma’, etc. in small claims court. Our attorney will be quite happy to escalate this to a higher court in order to bring a claim/counterclaim into play. He knows the full story, has seen all of the evidence (which we cannot reveal here for obvious reasons) and feels the case is “slam-dunk” but the ultimate payout (to us) is a matter for a judge or JP to decide.

Now, we are not ordinarily folks that like to take this route and, in fact, I cannot recall having filed a claim against ANYONE ( and we have had plenty of cause and opportunity over the years) in more than 20 - 25 years. We don’t like strife, aggravation, bother. Better things to do in life. But after the caustic and insulting message left for us by the owner of this dealership up in the Markham/Stoufville area, we are raring to go. And if there is any hint of libel or slander involved (and we will find out in court should it go that far), we WILL chase this dealership and the owner to the four corners of the Earth. We take great pride in our family name. It is all that we can really leave to our children after all.

Fact is, the last time we took anyone to court, 25 years ago, it was the result of a publication printing a letter from a subscriber calling us all sorts of bad names. The publication did not bother to check and the fact of the matter was that the allegations were untrue - they had purchased a piece of defective equipment from us and were complaining that they had been royally “done”. Fact of the matter was, that we had offered them either a replacement with an extended warranty OR a full refund including shipping and any costs incurred. As we always did, for any customer with a problem. And as we still do today (although we are out of that particular business operation, having sold it a few years ago). In essence? Satisfaction guaranteed or money cheerfully refunded. Which is what we thought we were dealing with with this dealership in the Markham/Stoufville area… but it appears not.

In any event, when the invoice was finally demanded of them and subsequently received, we could make neither heads nor tails of it. It has line items that are in ‘code’ and only the writer of the invoice might understand. It matters not. What matters is what we were quoted and what we were promised and the trouble we were put to. Heck, we even had to pay $20-25 for parking in their parking lot each visit! (Methinks a judge might want to roll their eyes at this).

I think the suggestion of a letter/email to the President of Unitron might be a good idea as they will most certainly be named in any claim/counterclaim; but more so because I do not think they need or want the bad PR.

If it sounds like I am a little more than ticked off you are right. One does not expect this from a government regulated industry… let alone one that is funded heavily by government subsidy (and which we are supposed to benefit from). Nada.

Any further suggestions or experiences would be most appreciated, either posted or by PM. Thanks very much.

Murray

85

Oh. One other wee tidbit. They claimed at one point that the problems were because my wife was perspiring in the heat out of doors and sold her a set of “sweat guards”. We have been waiting a year for delivery of these (should the hearing aids not be water and sweat resistant?).

My wife replaces batteries the moment the appear to be losing power, so there is no ‘leakage’ issue and one has never been brought up.

We also have not one, but two ‘dehydrators’, keep them handy and whenever the hearing aids are not being worn, they are in the dehydrator storage cases… more as a matter of not losing the things than anything else to be honest. They fit in a purse or pocket much more readily than the big box that comes with the units.

What’s this about perspiration? (And surely perspiration would not cause a set of hearing aids to arrive DOA, nor a problem with programming a set of hearing aids on delivery, etc.)

Murray

P.S. And has anyone ever heard of “sweat guards”? One would think they would be listed in the manufacturer’s catalogs which I do not believe they are.

86

Look up “Ear Gear” and you will see what we generally would define as a sweat guard.

87

There is also a company that make HA Sweat Bands.

88

Sorry haven’t been by this site for a while, but have you considered lodging a complaint with CASLPO/CASLPA if the owner is an audiologist. Believe me, they never have to pay restocking, the sales reps will wipe it clean. If Ontario dumped the ADP $500,00 per hearing aid subsidy, it would help to make this industry more accountable, the $500 per ear covers the office expenses etc. It never gets clawed back.
Ontario (MOH) is slowly dumping Audiology and dispensing in a hospital setting, and leaving the consumer to the wolves. You could try Sunnybrook Hospital, Mount Sinai or Toronto General,Baycrest Hospital which still do dispensing within a clinical setting. They aren’t as concerned to appease their financial masters, and will give you an honest assessment. Canadian Hearing Society (CHS)is also an alternative.

Oh to add to my earlier posts, William Demant now has purchased Med RX, and Oticon’s purchasing of once independant dispenser’s (in Canada) continue’s. Connect Hearing (Unitron) has also been aggresively gobbling up independant dispensers, so the market is thinning for sure.

89

Although this seems to be a thread for long threads (and a long extinct one), I’ll stick to the OP’s question. Over the past 25 years, I’ve had four sets of HA’s, one analog ITC, two digital ITC’s, and one digital BTE. Starkey & ReSound. Every pair went back under warranty (sometimes multiple times), and the last set of BTE’s was so unreliable, inconvenient, ugly & uncomfortable that 5 years ago, I decided to put them in the dresser drawer & learn to live with hearing loss.

“Hearing aid” is a synonym for “rip off,” especially at the prices & with the level of service. I’d say they are comparable to Italian sports cars more than 21st century electronics.

90

I have two Hi Health Innovation BTE Aids The left one broke down twice and each time they tried to blame it on getting wet. I live in Florida and if its not raining then you’re perspiring and the last time they refused to replace it without paying postage. Being that I did nothing to the Aid and put it in a moisture cup at night, I am concluding that (from what they have said about moisture) that this AID does not weather well here in Florida! Both aids were under 6 months old! Plus the company is out of state, even though they have a representative here, which makes it harder to get service here!

91

After reading much of this thread, I have one great big consumer’s question for all the manufacturer’s reps out there:

HA manufacturer, Please tell me again:

Exactly why is it that the consumer feels he/she is getting “ripped-off” when he/she is forced by his/her disability to purchase a “medical device” at a price of $6000 and said “medical device” has a life expectancy of 2-4 years. (At best, that’s $4.11/day of life expectancy for the hearing aid. Heck, even a fancy new automobile only has a cost/day of around $8.00 and you can’t tell me that a HA costs half as much to build.)

Better still, said hearing device will be deemed as “obsolete technology” by you, the manufacturer, in less than 18 mo. so the customer will be “more than ready to do it all again in short order” rather than pay for a repair to an “obsolete item”.

As for the demanding environment in which a hearing aid must function; I don’t suppose you call the environment in which an automobile has to function a demanding one? Exposure to road salt, temps as high as 120F and as low as -50F, exposure to road vibrations that put a jack hammer to shame, routinely getting doused by full blown rainstorms that would float an ark, and even a good dousing with a mud-bath occasionally. " Oh, but you say a hearing aid has delicate electronics." To this I say B.S. Exactly how many delicate electronic components do you think the modern car has in it?

Let’s see, why is it that you feel threatened by the onslaught of these things called PSAP’s all of a sudden? Why are you so afraid of such changes as Hi-Health Innovations? If your profit margins are so thin, and your target market is so small and delicate, why then is it that every one of you manufacturers are scrambling to open retail outlets which put the independent retailers out of business? Is your little world about to collapse upon itself? I think so. Especially, if you don’t listen to the music! A big change is on its way!

92

Well said! I see some manufacturers are advertising about their water resistant abilities now.

93

Here’s my situation…hopefully someone can help.

I bought Starkey Soundlens almost 3 years ago. Came with a 2 year warranty. Needed a repair 2 months ago - $475 (new 6 month warranty on that). Need the other one repaired - same price. I called an online company looking for a new backup pair, told them my story and they said that when the aids went off warranty, I could have purchased a 2-year extended warranty for $300 covering both aids. The audi never mentioned this needless to say. I feel like I’m getting ripped off…am I?

— Updated —

94

I would certainly bring up the warranty issue with your audi and let them know your not to happy. As for repairing the HA, You could send them to www.DirectHearingAidServices.com for repairs if you want to deal with someone who won’t rip you off. They are located in Garden Grove, CA and they all worked for Starkey until Starkey moved everything to Minnesota a few years back. These guys fix all brands and are fast and reasonable; I’m sure it won’t cost you $475 and you will have the HA back in about a week. If you want to call them there # is 1-714-534-3277. I have used them after several times after getting ripped of by my audiologist who charged me several hundred $ just to put the HA in a box and send it off for repairs. Good luck!

— Updated —

I would certainly bring up the warranty issue with your audi and let them know your not to happy. As for repairing the HA, You could send them to www.DirectHearingAidServices.com for repairs if you want to deal with someone who won’t rip you off. They are located in Garden Grove, CA and they all worked for Starkey until Starkey moved everything to Minnesota a few years back. These guys fix all brands and are fast and reasonable; I’m sure it won’t cost you $475 and you will have the HA back in about a week. If you want to call them there # is 1-714-534-3277. I have used them after several times after getting ripped of by my audiologist who charged me several hundred $ just to put the HA in a box and send it off for repairs. Good luck!

95

Thanks for the info…I’ll definitely be giving them a call in the future.

96

xbulder, the more i pay for any product, the more demanding i will be for excellence. you are catering to the high end so expect more demands.

97

xbulber, i have been looking and every audi i have spoken has always recommended their higher end product.

98

Hearing aids have a life expectancy of about 5-7yrs. Whoever told you 2-4yrs is full of shite.

99

I bought my HA’s from a private Audi. My physical needs are far more important to me than my transportation needs. Even at the price I paid my HA’s will amortize on an annual basis to way less than my car insurance costs here in NJ.

100

  1. You don’t HAVE to pay $6000. The prices of my hearing aids range from $1400-$6800 (with available options) per set. You should pay what you can afford to pay. You were breaking it down on a day to day basis…you should be using your hearing aids every day almost all day long. If you think of it that way you can’t compare it to a car that you may drive only minutes to an hour per day.

  2. As the other guy said…2-4 years is not accurate. I give my patients accurate information. Hearing aids can last as long as you need them to last. I say on average 6-8 years but you are going to need 2-3 repairs on average in that timeframe, more frequently as they age. I would say on average my patients get new hearing aids every 5-6 years though because they want better technology.

2a. Speaking of repairs, I saw above this someone paid $475 for a repair. That is too much. I would call that a clear rip-off. I don’t know how they can justify. I send my repairs back to the manufacturer (not 3rd party) for repair and they come with a 1 year warranty. I charge $250.

  1. Who is calling your hearing aids obsolete after 18 months? If my patients have purchased our $6,000 set 4 years ago, I routinely advise them the technology is still great and relevent, as it is. Can it directly connect to iPhone? No. Is it capable of other improvements that have been made over the past 4 years? No. But it is not obsolete. If they want to uprage for the new technology, that is a choice they are free to make. I tell them what they would gain by doing so. But I never advise against repairing a 4 year old set of $6,000 hearing aids because of “obsolete technology”.

  2. On this one you are wrong. These are delicate electronic components. If you exposed your car radio components daily to ear wax, sweat, and rain they would encounter the same problems a hearing aid does. Today’s hearing aids are amazingly resilient to these things if you ask me, when I think about what they go through on a day to day basis.

  3. No one in the industry feels threatened by PSAPs. Why would we?

  4. I am not afraid of changes such as Hi-Health. I am embarrassed by them though. If you trust a health insurance company to your hearing care more than your audiologist or hearing instrument specialist that is your choice. But their model is AWFUL for the hearing impaired community. The only reason Hi-Health exists is to allow United Healthcare to claim they have hearing aid coverage, while that really isn’t the case at all. You still have to pay for the hearing aids (your “hearing aid benefit” is a “reduced” price), which are extremely cheap…and you get no service. I simply do not agree with that model at all.